tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post3453546044329552182..comments2023-07-23T09:12:13.303-07:00Comments on Examining the Trinity: JHVHNT ('Jehovah' in the NT)Elijah Danielshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13053062645377291813noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-75898523308491684952022-11-08T00:30:03.702-08:002022-11-08T00:30:03.702-08:00Always find it interesting, that some say NWT is d...Always find it interesting, that some say NWT is dishonest because they dont translate "lord" in Phil 2:10-11, 1Pe 3:14-15, Heb 1:10 as "Jehovah" - should be obvious its used as a title and not a proper nounAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-54534068374997760402011-10-12T13:45:55.605-07:002011-10-12T13:45:55.605-07:00Probably because the early Christian writings went...Probably because the early Christian writings went through many trinitarian copyists before they became available for today's translators. See the last half of the 'Creeds' study.Elijahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-7095302726764167042011-10-12T01:00:34.876-07:002011-10-12T01:00:34.876-07:00Hey I have a quick question. I can understand if t...Hey I have a quick question. I can understand if the early Christians took the divine name out of the NT and replaced it with (kurios) but why doesn't any of Clements or apostolic writings contain something similar? Like why didn't clement write, "may Jehovah, who chose Jesus"...instead of writing "may the all knowing God and Lord of Flesh" Of course I didn't quote it perfectly but you understand my point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-79851732613186043202010-04-17T09:13:47.629-07:002010-04-17T09:13:47.629-07:00Matt13weedhacker
Just an update Barnabas doesn...Matt13weedhacker<br /><br />Just an update Barnabas doesn't talk as much as I thought about God's name.<br /><br />It does have some references though.<br /><br />Hermas is a very long document which is highly symbolic, I will get back to you when I've finished collating my references.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-9333598115144509492010-04-10T12:54:50.334-07:002010-04-10T12:54:50.334-07:00It's interesting that Clement, one, if not the...It's interesting that Clement, one, if not the earliest of the so-called "Apostolic Father's", and in the Didache, that <b>God's NAME ( יהוה ) still had high importance!</b> <br /><br />The fact that God's <b>NAME Gk., (ὄνομά)</b> is still revered around this time period = late 1st to 1st half of the 2nd Century <b>fits well</b> with what you have been saying about the removal of ( יהוה ) the (τετραγράμματον) from the LXX and the NT early to mid 2nd Century.<br /><br />Going by memory, what little survives of Polycarp and Papias are only quotations, or in MSS of very late dates, 1000 years older than the originals. They had little to say on God's name. <br /><br />Ignatius, well, what can you say, which recension (LONG Greek, MIDDLE Latin/Greek, SHORT Syriac) hasn't been tampered with! <br /><br />Barnabas and the Shepard of Hermas which are generally considered to have been written some time in the 2nd Century also talk about the NAME of God quite a bit aswell. Barnabas in particular. <br /><br />If I get time I'll post what they had to say.<br /><br />It all seems to fit to me!Matt13weedhackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643587467702969643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-56268699274625235652010-04-10T12:35:27.104-07:002010-04-10T12:35:27.104-07:00Translated by J. B. Lightfoot - 1Clem Chapter 64:1...<b>Translated by J. B. Lightfoot - 1Clem Chapter 64:1:</b> “Finally may <b>the All seeing God and Master of spirits and Lord of all flesh</b>, <i>who chose</i> the Lord Jesus Christ, and us <i>through</i> Him for a peculiar people, grant unto every soul <b>that is called after His excellent and holy NAME</b> faith, fear, peace, patience, long-suffering, temperance, chastity and soberness, <b>that they may be well pleasing unto His NAME</b> <i>through</i> our High priest and Guardian Jesus Christ, <i>through</i> whom unto Him be glory and majesty, might and honor, both now and for ever and ever. Amen.”Matt13weedhackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643587467702969643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-75028923754724094962010-04-10T12:31:26.832-07:002010-04-10T12:31:26.832-07:00Translated by J. B. Lightfoot - 1Clem Chapter 60:4...<b>Translated by J. B. Lightfoot - 1Clem Chapter 60:4:</b> “Give concord and peace to us and to all that dwell on the earth, as Thou gavest to our fathers, when they called on Thee in faith and truth with holiness, [that we may be saved,] <b>while we render obedience to Thine ALMIGHTY and most excellent NAME</b>, and to our rulers and governors upon the earth.”<br /><br />I should have added that the capitalization and italics are added by me in all these references.Matt13weedhackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643587467702969643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-47943915633428075182010-04-10T12:28:16.357-07:002010-04-10T12:28:16.357-07:00Translation by Rick Brannan 2005; - 1st Clement Ch...<b>Translation by Rick Brannan 2005; - 1st Clement Chapter 59:3:</b> [ Δὸς ἡμῖν, κύριε ἐλπίζειν ἐπὶ τὸ ἀρχεγόνον πάσης κτίσεως ὄνομά σου,] “Grant us, Lord, to hope in the ultimate source of all creation, <b>your NAME</b>,...”<br /><br />(ἀρχεγόνον) Variously translated as: “Arch-begotten, Primal-source, Author, First-of,” in the translations I've looked at so far.<br /><br /><b>THE FIRST EPISTLE OF CLEMENT TO THE CORINTHIANS translated by Charles H. Hoole, 1885 - Chapter 59:3:</b> [ ἐλπίζειν ἐπὶ τὸ ἀρχεγόνον πάσης κτίσεως ὄνομά σου,] “That we may hope in <b>thy NAME</b>, which is the first of all things, open the eyes of our heart to know thee, who art alone highest among the highest, holy among the holy, who puttest down the haughtiness of the proud, who scatterest the reasonings of the Gentiles, who exaltest the humble on high, and lowerest the lofty, who makest rich and makest poor, who killest and makest to live, the only benefactor of spirits, and God of all flesh, who lookest into the abysses, who beholdest the works of men, who art the helper of those in danger, the saviour of those who have lost hope, who art the maker and bishop of every soul, who makest the nations to multiply upon earth, and out of all hast chosen those that love thee <i>through</i> Jesus Christ thy beloved Son, <i>through</i> whom thou hast taught us, hast sanctified us, hast honoured us.”Matt13weedhackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643587467702969643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-6181073041570875442010-04-10T12:24:50.473-07:002010-04-10T12:24:50.473-07:00Translated by J. B. Lightfoot - 1Clem Chapter 59:3...<b>Translated by J. B. Lightfoot - 1Clem Chapter 59:3:</b> “[Grant unto us, Lord,] [ ἐλπίζειν ἐπὶ τὸ ἀρχεγόνον πάσης κτίσεως <b>ὄνομά σου</b>,] <i>that we may set our hope on</i> <b>Thy NAME which is the primal source of all creation</b>, and open the eyes of our hearts, <i>that we may know Thee, who alone abidest Highest in the lofty, Holy in the holy;</i> ... <i>who alone art the Benefactor of spirits and the God of all flesh;</i> who lookest into the abysses, who scanest the works of man; the Succor of them that are in peril, the Savior of them that are in despair; <b>The Creator and Overseer of every spirit</b>; who multipliest the nations upon earth, and hast chosen out from all men those that love Thee <i>through</i> Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, <i>through</i> whom Thou didst instruct us, didst sanctify us, didst honor us. <b>[Footnote from CCEL.org Greek text</b> [* There appears to be a lacuna in the Greek: Lightfoot supplies Δὸς ἡμῖν, κύριε.]<b>]</b><br /><br /><b>Translated by Kevin P. Edgecomb in Berkeley, California 2006; - 1st Clement Chapter 59:3:</b> [ Δὸς ἡμῖν, κύριε ἐλπίζειν ἐπὶ τὸ ἀρχεγόνον πάσης κτίσεως ὄνομά σου,] “Grant us, Lord, to hope in the Author of all creation,<b>Your Name</b> opening the eyes of our heart, in order to know You alone: “resting in the Height among Heights, the Holy among Holies,” ...the only Discoverer of spirits and God of all flesh, “looking into the depths,” the Observer of human works, the Helper of the endangered, the Savior of the despairing, the Creator and Overseer [episkopon] of every spirit, multiplying the nations upon the earth, choosing from all those who love You <i>through</i> Jesus Christ Your beloved Child, <i>through</i> Whom You have disciplined, sanctified, and honored us.”Matt13weedhackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643587467702969643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-42393843613722075602010-04-10T12:16:41.872-07:002010-04-10T12:16:41.872-07:00Translated by J. B. Lightfoot - 1Clem Chapter 59:2...<b>Translated by J. B. Lightfoot - 1Clem Chapter 59:2:</b> “...but we shall be guiltless of this sin. And we will ask, with instancy of prayer and supplication, that <b>the Creator of the universe</b> may guard intact unto the end the number that hath been numbered of His elect throughout the whole world, <i>through</i> His beloved Son Jesus Christ, <i>through</i> whom He called us from darkness to light, from ignorance <b>to the full knowledge of the glory of His NAME</b>.”Matt13weedhackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643587467702969643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-25228433493777953802010-04-10T12:14:32.120-07:002010-04-10T12:14:32.120-07:00Translated by J. B. Lightfoot - 1Clem Chapter 58:1...<b>Translated by J. B. Lightfoot - 1Clem Chapter 58:1:</b> “Let us therefore be obedient unto <b>His most holy and glorious NAME</b>, thereby escaping the threatenings which were spoken of old by the mouth of Wisdom against them which disobey, that we may dwell safely, <b>trusting in the most holy NAME of His majesty</b>.”Matt13weedhackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643587467702969643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-89975406458357491622010-04-10T12:12:34.002-07:002010-04-10T12:12:34.002-07:00Translated by J. B. Lightfoot - 1Clem Chapter 45:7...<b>Translated by J. B. Lightfoot - 1Clem Chapter 45:7:</b> “Or were Ananias and Azarias and Misael shut up in the furnace of fire by them that professed the excellent and glorious worship of <b>the Most High</b>? Far be this from our thoughts. Who then were they that did these things? Abominable men and full of all wickedness were stirred up to such a pitch of wrath, as to bring cruel suffering upon them that served God in a holy and blameless purpose, not knowing that <b>the Most High</b> is the champion and protector of them that in a pure conscience serve <b>His excellent NAME</b>: unto whom be the glory for ever and ever. Amen.”Matt13weedhackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643587467702969643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-68697618876794331292010-04-10T12:09:39.257-07:002010-04-10T12:09:39.257-07:00Clement of Rome 1st Epistle to the Corinthians wri...Clement of Rome 1st Epistle to the Corinthians written (circa 100 C.E.):<br /><br /><b>Translated by J. B. Lightfoot - 1Clem Chapter 43:6:</b> “What think ye, dearly beloved? Did not Moses know beforehand that this would come to pass? Assuredly he knew it. But that disorder might not arise in Israel, he did thus, to the end that the NAME of the true and only God might be glorified: to whom he the glory for ever and ever. Amen...”Matt13weedhackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643587467702969643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-50893955425726231492010-04-10T12:05:55.983-07:002010-04-10T12:05:55.983-07:00Matt13weedhacker
The Didache - A Translation by R...Matt13weedhacker<br /><br /><b>The Didache - A Translation by Rick Brannan 2009 Chapter § 14:3</b> “For this is what was said by the Lord: “In every place and time, offer me a pure sacrifice because I am a great king,” says the Lord, “and my NAME [is] great among the nations.” <b>[Footnote 68: Mal 1:11, 14]</b><br /><br /><b>The Teaching Of The Twelve – Translated by S. Stanhope Orris P.H.D. 1884. Chapter § 14:3</b> “...For this is the one that was commanded by the Lord: 'At every place and in every place time, offer me a pure sacrifice for I am a great King, and my NAME is wondeful among he nations...”<br /><br /><b>The Teaching Of The Twelve Apostles – Translated by Roswell D Hitchcock & Francis Brown. Chapter § 14:3</b> “...For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: 'At every place and time, bring me a pure sacrifice for a great king am I, saith the Lord, and my NAME is marvelous among he nations...” <br /><br />This is a quotation from <b>Malachi 1:11,14;</b>:<br /><br /><b>Malachi 1:11 Greek OT: Septuagint with Diacritics:</b> διότι ἀπ' ἀνατολῶν ἡλίου ἕως δυσμῶν <b>τὸ ὄνομά μου</b> δεδόξασται ἐν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν καὶ ἐν παντὶ τόπῳ θυμίαμα προσάγεται <b>τῷ ὀνόματί μου</b> καὶ θυσία καθαρά διότι μέγα <b>τὸ ὄνομά μου</b> ἐν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν λέγει [(<b>יְהוָה</b>)=Heb] <b>κύριος παντοκράτωρ</b><br /><br /><b>Philippians 2:11:</b> “And every tongue acclaim Jesus Christ as Master, <b>( to )</b> the glory of God the Father.” <b>- THE AUTHENTIC NEW TESTAMENT by Hugh J. Schonfield, 1955.</b>Matt13weedhackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643587467702969643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-62660060131267448942010-04-10T11:55:26.639-07:002010-04-10T11:55:26.639-07:00Matt13weedhacker
The Didache - A Translation by R...Matt13weedhacker<br /><br /><b>The Didache - A Translation by Rick Brannan 2009 Chapter § 10:2,3;</b> “We give thanks to you, O Holy Father, for your holy NAME which you caused to dwell in our hearts ... 3 You, All-Powerful Master, you have created all things for the sake of your NAME...”<br /><br /><b>The Teaching Of The Twelve – Translated by S. Stanhope Orris P.H.D. 1884. Chapter § 10:2,3;</b> “We thank Thee, Holy Father, for Thy holy NAME, which Thou hast caused to dwell in our hearts, … Thou Almighty Sovereign didst create the universe for Thy NAMES sake...”<br /><br /><b>The Teaching Of The Twelve Apostles – Translated by Roswell D Hitchcock & Francis Brown. Chapter § 10:2,3;</b> “...We thank thee, Holy Father for thy holy NAME, which thou hast caused to dwell in our hearts … Thou Master Almighty, didst create all things for thy NAMES sake...”Matt13weedhackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16643587467702969643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-63925758712646464282010-04-10T11:52:26.507-07:002010-04-10T11:52:26.507-07:00Matt13weedhacker
Of course the Tetragrammaton is ...Matt13weedhacker<br /><br />Of course the Tetragrammaton is not used in these two writings but they do speak about God's NAME, more specifically the NAME of the FATHER.<br /><br /><b>The Didache 8:2</b> in three translations:<br /><br /><b>The Didache - A Translation by Rick Brannan 2009 Chapter § 8:2</b> “...Pray in this way: Our Father who [is] in heaven, may your NAME be holy...”<br /><br /><b>The Teaching Of The Twelve – Translated by S. Stanhope Orris P.H.D. 1884. Chapter § 8:2</b> “...Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy NAME...”<br /><br /><b>The Teaching Of The Twelve Apostles – Translated by Roswell D Hitchcock & Francis Brown. Chapter § 8:2</b> “...Thus pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy NAME...”<br /><br />Yes there are un-scriptual concepts in the Didache but I'm just focusing on God's NAME references.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-14371026960679395592010-04-10T11:16:08.006-07:002010-04-10T11:16:08.006-07:00Matt13weedhacker
Hey excellent exposition!
I nev...Matt13weedhacker<br /><br />Hey excellent exposition!<br /><br />I never noticed the grammar in the Greek of Matthew's quotation in Chap 22 from Psa 110:1. It certainly would have the definite article in the Greek if it was just the tittle (HA) ADONAY/ADONAI in the original Hebrew. <br /><br />I never noticed those two quotes in the ANF by Tertullian or Hippolytus either, fantastic stuff!<br /><br />The EARLIEST surviving ANF writers from <b>before 150 C.E.,</b> hold God's name in high regard. Alot more than they are often given credit for! Particuarly the Didache and Clement of Rome's First Epistle to the Corinthians. <br /><br />I'll give you some examples!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com