tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post374318200692710885..comments2023-07-23T09:12:13.303-07:00Comments on Examining the Trinity: Scriptures Index for Examining the TrinityElijah Danielshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13053062645377291813noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-53555609097254145052017-02-15T22:44:09.577-08:002017-02-15T22:44:09.577-08:00Hi everyone, I know this text is often used to sho...Hi everyone, I know this text is often used to show since it is talking about Jehovah in Psalms that Jesus must be Jehovah. However, we know that can't be since Jehovah is the God of the Messiah according to Micah 5:4. Could it be to understand Hebrews 1:10 we could just read a few more verses? In Hebrews 2:7 it tells us, "You made him a little lower than angels; you crowned him with glory and honor, and appointed him over THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS." Whose hands? The God and Father of Jesus Christ who is Jehovah God. Now when we go back to Hebrews 1:10 it makes scriptural sense that it speaks about the heavens and earth as the work of his hands and Jesus absolutely was appointed to participate in making all things as he always is when having a share in fulfilling God's purpose. As Psalm 8:6 tells us: "You [Jehovah] gave him [Jesus] dominion over the works of your hands; You have put everything under his feet:" Thanks for listening. Nick Batchelorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14338321183875485322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-70850688971404487752016-12-18T17:33:12.783-08:002016-12-18T17:33:12.783-08:00It is confusing to understand this writer to be ap...It is confusing to understand this writer to be apparently quoting God (Jehovah) as addressing Jehovah when the Psalm being quoted is actually a prayer by a man to Jehovah God! <br /><br />Furthermore, since Bible scholars agree that this was written to a congregation of Hellenistic Jews who already knew who Jesus and God were, it is impossible to assume that they were just now, in this indirect fashion, being told that the Son was God!<br /><br />And, sure enough, the writer of Hebrews is not concerned with what would be the most essential matter of all, but is striving, instead, to prove that the Son is superior to the [other] prophets and angels! If he had really intended to say that Jesus is equally God, he would have said so instead of attempting to prove his superiority to prophets and angels! <br /><br />So confusing as it may be to us (2 Peter 3:16), and whatever he is trying to say, it cannot be that the Son is Jehovah or is equally God! <br /><br />The Watchtower Society explains it this way:<br /><br />“Why does Hebrews 1:10-12 quote Psalm 102:25-27 and apply it to the Son, when the psalm says that it is addressed to God? Because the Son is the one through whom God performed the creative works there described by the psalmist. (See Colossians 1:15, 16; Proverbs 8:22, 27-30.) It should be observed in Hebrews 1:5b that a quotation is made from 2 Samuel 7:14 and applied to the Son of God. Although that text had its first application to Solomon, the later application of it to Jesus Christ does not mean that Solomon and Jesus are the same.” – p. 414, "Reasoning from the Scriptures". <br /><br />We also see that Heb. 1:8, 9 is a quote of Ps.45:6, 7 where the psalmist is speaking of a human king (possibly Solomon) not Jehovah or Jesus. It also has been given a secondary fulfillment by the writer of Hebrews in being applied to Jesus. Again this should not be understood as meaning the ancient human king in the Psalm was actually Jesus Christ. <br /><br />I have no better explanation (which does not mean there isn’t one), and so rely on what has been said above and the obvious knowledge that in context here, the writer has not attempted to say that the Son is Jehovah or equally God, and has, in fact, made many statements to the contrary).<br />tigger2https://www.blogger.com/profile/09601427279760049377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-47467438210045167402016-12-17T01:51:15.720-08:002016-12-17T01:51:15.720-08:00The link I was referring to is above: "Heb. 1...The link I was referring to is above: "Heb. 1:10-12 ("In the beginning, Lord, you founded the earth") – HEB 7-8" but the HEB study doesn't mention Hebrews 1:10-12 where the writer quotes Psalm 102 (about Jehovah as creator) and applies it to Jesus. Do you have any comment specifically on this? <br /><br />It is certainly noteworthy that the author of Hebrews quotes the LXX which has the words in question applied to someone other than Jehovah, and it would seem strange for the author of Hebrews to use the passage to teach that Jesus IS creator when he has just said that he is the AGENT of creation a few verses earlier. What are your thoughts?Timitriushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11786235138604501688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-73873788767708157702016-12-16T12:26:40.644-08:002016-12-16T12:26:40.644-08:00I don't believe there is any link for Heb. 1:1...I don't believe there is any link for Heb. 1:10. The scripture itself is listed but without a link. However, I would repeat the following from the Heb. 1:8 study:<br /><br />“World-renowned Scottish New Testament interpreter," Dr. William Barclay, comments as follows: <br /><br />“The letter [of Hebrews] was written to a Church which had had great days and great teachers and leaders.” - p. 6. “Moreover, it was obviously written to a scholarly group [who] ... had long been under instruction and were preparing themselves to become teachers of the Christian faith.” - p. 7.<br /><br />“[The author] is concerned to prove [Jesus’] SUPERIORITY OVER THE ANGELS.” - p. 16, The Letter to the Hebrews, Revised Edition, 1976, The Westminster Press. <br /><br />Yes, this world-acclaimed trinitarian scholar has (perhaps inadvertently) illuminated the truth of the doctrine of God which was understood by first-century Christians! They had absolutely no concept of the 3-in-one God idea which was developed in later centuries (see the HIST study). IF these learned 1st century Christians had really considered Jesus “equally God” (as 4th century Christendom began doing), it certainly would have been nonsensical for the writer of Hebrews to attempt to prove that Jesus was superior to all other angels!<br /><br />....<br /><br />Noted trinitarian NT Greek scholar, A. T. Robertson tells us that the inspired Letter to the Hebrews was written to a church of Jewish Christians whose Jewish neighbors <br /><br />“... have urged them to give up Christ and Christianity and to come back to Judaism.... These Jews argued that the prophets were superior to Jesus, the law came by the ministry of angels, Moses was greater than Jesus, and Aaron than Jesus. [The writer of Hebrews] turns the argument on the Jews and boldly champions the Glory of Jesus as superior at every point to all that Judaism had, as God’s Son and man’s Saviour, the crown and glory of the Old Testament prophecy, the hope of mankind. It is the first great apologetic for Christianity and has never been surpassed.” - Word Pictures in the New Testament, Vol. v, pp. 331, 339. <br /><br />Again, it would have been absolutely absurd for the inspired writer of Hebrews to devote this entire, long letter to proving that Jesus is superior to Moses, Aaron, and the angels if the intended readers, as the spirit-born Christians they were, had already accepted Jesus as God Almighty! And even if they had originally believed that Jesus was God, but were now in doubt, the Bible writer certainly wouldn’t waste any time trying to prove Jesus’ superiority to Moses and the angels. He would have dedicated the entire letter to proving absolutely that Jesus is God (if he had really believed such a thing himself)! <br /><br />Furthermore, if those Jewish neighbors had any inkling that these Christians believed that anyone except Jehovah, the Father alone, was Almighty God, they wouldn’t have spent any time at all on these other relatively minor aspects. The clamor of the Jews against Christians who called Jesus “God” would have been deafening, overwhelming! <br /><br />But there is no record of any such thing until after the Trinity Doctrine was declared by the Roman Catholic Church in the 4th century A.D.! - See ISRAEL and CREEDS studies.<br /><br />tigger2https://www.blogger.com/profile/09601427279760049377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653325549409648983.post-82662254534890982852016-12-16T01:57:11.716-08:002016-12-16T01:57:11.716-08:00The link to the discussion of Hebrews 1:10-12 does...The link to the discussion of Hebrews 1:10-12 doesn't seem to work, I can't find any discussion of that Scripture on the linked page. Is the link incorrect?Timitriushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11786235138604501688noreply@blogger.com