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This website examines the unscriptural and pagan history of the Trinity Doctrine - often through the admissions from Trinitarian's own sources. This site also provides comprehensive research that exposes the false reasoning behind almost every Trinity 'proof-text'. Subjects can be found through the Indexes, Links or the Search Box below.
Friday, February 26, 2010
Thursday, February 18, 2010
Comment option has been now been enabled
The comment option (located at the bottom of each post) has now been enabled.
Although not every comment may be posted, all comments will be read.
We appreciate any and all constructive feedback.
Although not every comment may be posted, all comments will be read.
We appreciate any and all constructive feedback.
Thursday, February 11, 2010
Did Those Who Knew Jesus Think He was God?
Did those who knew him during his lifetime understand Jesus to be God?
"Father, ... This is eternal life: to know thee who alone art truly God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." - John 17:1,3, New English Bible.
There are a number of places in scripture where those who actually knew Jesus let us know by their words and actions if they thought he was God (or even if they believed that he taught that he was God). Let's look at a few of them (remember it means everlasting life to know God and Jesus).
1. Nowhere in the synoptic Gospels (the first Gospels to be written: Matthew, Mark, and Luke) do the family, friends, disciples (or enemies) of Jesus say anything even hinting that they thought he was God (or that he was teaching or claiming that he was God). That such essential new information (if true) should be ignored completely is impossible to believe. Compare all the times Jesus is called the Christ or Messiah. Since these were written many years before the fourth Gospel, they should show the most important news about Jesus: information which is essential for his followers to know.
2. Those Jewish leaders who wanted Jesus dead could have merely said that he claimed to be God (an automatic death sentence). But, although they condemned him to death because he claimed to be the Messiah, they never accused him of being God in the Synoptic Gospels. They even hired false witnesses to lie about him, but even those false witnesses did not accuse Jesus of claiming to be God. - Matthew 26:59 -63.
The one place in John's later Gospel where many trinitarian Bibles render the Greek to read as though the Jews accused Jesus of 'making himself God' is clearly a mistranslation (as the New English Bible indicates) because of context and NT Greek grammar. - (See "My God" and "Theon" files.)
3. What did those who knew him best and were taught privately by him have to say about who he was? After being told that the people believed Jesus was John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah, or one of the [other] prophets, Jesus asked his disciples: "But who do you say that I am?" The answer was "the Messiah, the Son of the living God." Matthew 16:13-20. Neither the people nor the disciples themselves considered Jesus to be God! (Compare Mark 8:27-29; Luke 9:18-20.)
4. Look at the teachings of Jesus in the temple. (Matt.21:23-24:1) If any of the priests, officials, etc. thought Jesus had ever even implied that he was God, he would have been killed on the spot. And, for certain, he would never have been allowed to teach in the temple! But, if by some miracle, he was allowed to teach there (and there was any doubt whatsoever that he may have ever claimed that he was God or that any of his followers believed that he was God), every question to him would have been about that most important subject of all! But, no, he is never asked about such a thing!
5. When Jesus was dying, the rulers of the Jews spoke about him. Did they say, "If he is really God, let Him save himself!"? If they thought he claimed to be God, surely they would have said that instead of what they actually said: "He saved others, let him save himself if he is the chosen one, the Messiah of God." - Luke 23:25, NAB. (Cf. Matt. 27:42, 43; Mark 15:31, 32.
.......................................................
Just as Jesus would have been stoned to death if he was understood to be claiming he was God when teaching in the temple, so his disciples would have been driven out of the synagogues and stoned if it was understood that they believed Jesus was God!
Acts13:13-16, 42 (NASB)
13 Now Paul and his companions put out to sea from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia; but John left them and returned to Jerusalem. 14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets the synagogue officials sent to them, saying, "Brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it." 16 Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen: .... 42 As Paul and Barnabas were going out, the people kept begging that these things might be spoken to them the next Sabbath."
Acts 17: 1, 2 (KJV)
Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: 2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures ....
(NASB) Acts 18:4 And he [Paul] was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.
(NASB) Acts 19:8 And he [Paul] entered the synagogue and continued speaking out boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.
"Father, ... This is eternal life: to know thee who alone art truly God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." - John 17:1,3, New English Bible.
There are a number of places in scripture where those who actually knew Jesus let us know by their words and actions if they thought he was God (or even if they believed that he taught that he was God). Let's look at a few of them (remember it means everlasting life to know God and Jesus).
1. Nowhere in the synoptic Gospels (the first Gospels to be written: Matthew, Mark, and Luke) do the family, friends, disciples (or enemies) of Jesus say anything even hinting that they thought he was God (or that he was teaching or claiming that he was God). That such essential new information (if true) should be ignored completely is impossible to believe. Compare all the times Jesus is called the Christ or Messiah. Since these were written many years before the fourth Gospel, they should show the most important news about Jesus: information which is essential for his followers to know.
2. Those Jewish leaders who wanted Jesus dead could have merely said that he claimed to be God (an automatic death sentence). But, although they condemned him to death because he claimed to be the Messiah, they never accused him of being God in the Synoptic Gospels. They even hired false witnesses to lie about him, but even those false witnesses did not accuse Jesus of claiming to be God. - Matthew 26:59 -63.
The one place in John's later Gospel where many trinitarian Bibles render the Greek to read as though the Jews accused Jesus of 'making himself God' is clearly a mistranslation (as the New English Bible indicates) because of context and NT Greek grammar. - (See "My God" and "Theon" files.)
3. What did those who knew him best and were taught privately by him have to say about who he was? After being told that the people believed Jesus was John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah, or one of the [other] prophets, Jesus asked his disciples: "But who do you say that I am?" The answer was "the Messiah, the Son of the living God." Matthew 16:13-20. Neither the people nor the disciples themselves considered Jesus to be God! (Compare Mark 8:27-29; Luke 9:18-20.)
4. Look at the teachings of Jesus in the temple. (Matt.21:23-24:1) If any of the priests, officials, etc. thought Jesus had ever even implied that he was God, he would have been killed on the spot. And, for certain, he would never have been allowed to teach in the temple! But, if by some miracle, he was allowed to teach there (and there was any doubt whatsoever that he may have ever claimed that he was God or that any of his followers believed that he was God), every question to him would have been about that most important subject of all! But, no, he is never asked about such a thing!
5. When Jesus was dying, the rulers of the Jews spoke about him. Did they say, "If he is really God, let Him save himself!"? If they thought he claimed to be God, surely they would have said that instead of what they actually said: "He saved others, let him save himself if he is the chosen one, the Messiah of God." - Luke 23:25, NAB. (Cf. Matt. 27:42, 43; Mark 15:31, 32.
.......................................................
Just as Jesus would have been stoned to death if he was understood to be claiming he was God when teaching in the temple, so his disciples would have been driven out of the synagogues and stoned if it was understood that they believed Jesus was God!
Acts13:13-16, 42 (NASB)
13 Now Paul and his companions put out to sea from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia; but John left them and returned to Jerusalem. 14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets the synagogue officials sent to them, saying, "Brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it." 16 Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen: .... 42 As Paul and Barnabas were going out, the people kept begging that these things might be spoken to them the next Sabbath."
Acts 17: 1, 2 (KJV)
Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: 2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures ....
(NASB) Acts 18:4 And he [Paul] was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.
(NASB) Acts 19:8 And he [Paul] entered the synagogue and continued speaking out boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.
Wednesday, February 3, 2010
Questions for those who believe in the Trinity
Questions for those who believe in the Trinity:
Why do many encyclopedias, dictionaries and other sources (including Sir Isaac Newton) say that the "Trinity was a pagan corruption imposed on Christianity in the fourth century by Athanasius"?
Why do NUMEROUS encyclopedias agree that "... the doctrine of the Trinity was of gradual and comparatively late formation; that it had its origin in a source entirely foreign from that of the Jewish and Christian scriptures; that it grew up, and was ingrafted on Christianity"?
If Jesus is really God, would he have a Head (i.e., someone over him with more authority)? (1 Cor. 11:3)
How come Jesus subjects himself to God? (1 Cor. 15:27, 28)
How come these scriptures show that God is superior to Jesus?
If Jesus is God, how can Christ be the "FIRSTBORN of all creation"? (Colossians 1:15)
Why does Rev. 3:14 say that Jesus is "the beginning of the creation of God"?
Why does John 1:18 say that Jesus is God's "only BEGOTTEN Son"? ASV
How can Jesus be God and HAVE a God at the same time? (2 Cor. 1:3; Eph 1:3; Col 1:3; Mark 15:34; John 17:1-3; etc. Also in heaven, Rev. 3:12)
How can Jesus be God and also sit at His right hand?
Why do these scriptures phrase Jesus as a separate person from God? (John 20:17; John 14:1; Mark 10:18; John 17:1-3; Also in heaven, 1 Cor. 11:3 and Luke 22:69)
How can Jesus and the Father be God if only the Father has knowledge of the "day and hour"? (Mt. 24:36)
Why does Micah 5:2 say that Jesus' ORIGIN was “from early times”?
Why does Proverbs 8:22-31 show that the Messiah was CREATED/PRODUCED by God?
If Jesus is God, why is it that God resurrected Jesus? (Acts 2:32)
Why was Jesus exalted (not to become God Himself, but) to a secondary position...the "right hand OF God"? (Acts 2:33)
If Jesus is God why did he not come in his own name? (John 5:41-44)
Why did Jesus call the "Father...the only true God"? (John 17:3)
How could Jesus be tempted by Satan when God cannot be tempted with evil? (James 1:13)
How could Jesus be God when Jesus died and yet the Bible says that God cannot die? (Hab. 1:12; 1 Tim. 6:16)
How can Jesus be God if "no man has seen God at any time"? (John 1:18)
If Jesus is God, why does Heb. 5:8 say that he is "a son" who "learned obedience from the things he suffered"?
If God and Jesus really are equal, then why does the Bible phrase them as "Father" and "Son"?
Is there even one scripture which clearly defines the Trinity?
Where is there in Scripture a vision, dream, or CLEAR description wherein God is shown as three persons?
Where are clear scriptures where Jesus is called "God the Son," (equal to those declaring "God, the Father)?
Where in Scripture is God ever described using the word "three"?
Holy Spirit
Why do these quotes from Trinitarians admit that the Holy Spirit is not God but rather is a Force from God?
If the Holy Spirit has always been the third person in a triune God, then why would Jews instructed in the OT scriptures and in the teachings of John the Baptist, NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS? (Acts 19:2)
If the Holy Spirit is God, then why isn't the Holy Spirit given equal description in the Bible?
Why didn't Jesus ever teach that the Holy Spirit was God along with the Father and Son?
Why does the Bible describe the Holy Spirit as an "it"?
Why does the Bible describe the Holy Spirit as a thing that can be poured out into portions?
Why is the holy spirit nameless and indistinguishable from all of the other holy spirits?
If the Holy Spirit has always been the third person in a triune God, then why did the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD disregard the Holy Spirit as a member of the Godhead when they made Jesus 'God' in 325 AD? Why did they wait until the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD to include the Holy Spirit in the formula?
If the Holy Spirit is really a person, wouldn't the water and blood be persons too according to Trinitarian reasoning and 1 John 5:8?
If the holy spirit really is a person, then why is it sandwiched between a list of QUALITIES at 2 Cor. 6:6?
Why is it that nowhere in the Bible is the Holy Spirit ever said to be an equal member of a trinity?
Why is it that nowhere is it mentioned in the Bible the words, "God, the Holy Spirit," or "The Holy Spirit is God"?
Why is it that there is never mentioned a vision, dream or clear description in scripture wherein God and the Holy Spirit are shown as the same person?
Why do many encyclopedias, dictionaries and other sources (including Sir Isaac Newton) say that the "Trinity was a pagan corruption imposed on Christianity in the fourth century by Athanasius"?
Why do NUMEROUS encyclopedias agree that "... the doctrine of the Trinity was of gradual and comparatively late formation; that it had its origin in a source entirely foreign from that of the Jewish and Christian scriptures; that it grew up, and was ingrafted on Christianity"?
If Jesus is really God, would he have a Head (i.e., someone over him with more authority)? (1 Cor. 11:3)
How come Jesus subjects himself to God? (1 Cor. 15:27, 28)
How come these scriptures show that God is superior to Jesus?
If Jesus is God, how can Christ be the "FIRSTBORN of all creation"? (Colossians 1:15)
Why does Rev. 3:14 say that Jesus is "the beginning of the creation of God"?
Why does John 1:18 say that Jesus is God's "only BEGOTTEN Son"? ASV
How can Jesus be God and HAVE a God at the same time? (2 Cor. 1:3; Eph 1:3; Col 1:3; Mark 15:34; John 17:1-3; etc. Also in heaven, Rev. 3:12)
How can Jesus be God and also sit at His right hand?
Why do these scriptures phrase Jesus as a separate person from God? (John 20:17; John 14:1; Mark 10:18; John 17:1-3; Also in heaven, 1 Cor. 11:3 and Luke 22:69)
How can Jesus and the Father be God if only the Father has knowledge of the "day and hour"? (Mt. 24:36)
Why does Micah 5:2 say that Jesus' ORIGIN was “from early times”?
Why does Proverbs 8:22-31 show that the Messiah was CREATED/PRODUCED by God?
If Jesus is God, why is it that God resurrected Jesus? (Acts 2:32)
Why was Jesus exalted (not to become God Himself, but) to a secondary position...the "right hand OF God"? (Acts 2:33)
If Jesus is God why did he not come in his own name? (John 5:41-44)
Why did Jesus call the "Father...the only true God"? (John 17:3)
How could Jesus be tempted by Satan when God cannot be tempted with evil? (James 1:13)
How could Jesus be God when Jesus died and yet the Bible says that God cannot die? (Hab. 1:12; 1 Tim. 6:16)
How can Jesus be God if "no man has seen God at any time"? (John 1:18)
If Jesus is God, why does Heb. 5:8 say that he is "a son" who "learned obedience from the things he suffered"?
If God and Jesus really are equal, then why does the Bible phrase them as "Father" and "Son"?
Is there even one scripture which clearly defines the Trinity?
Where is there in Scripture a vision, dream, or CLEAR description wherein God is shown as three persons?
Where are clear scriptures where Jesus is called "God the Son," (equal to those declaring "God, the Father)?
Where in Scripture is God ever described using the word "three"?
Holy Spirit
Why do these quotes from Trinitarians admit that the Holy Spirit is not God but rather is a Force from God?
If the Holy Spirit has always been the third person in a triune God, then why would Jews instructed in the OT scriptures and in the teachings of John the Baptist, NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS? (Acts 19:2)
If the Holy Spirit is God, then why isn't the Holy Spirit given equal description in the Bible?
Why didn't Jesus ever teach that the Holy Spirit was God along with the Father and Son?
Why does the Bible describe the Holy Spirit as an "it"?
Why does the Bible describe the Holy Spirit as a thing that can be poured out into portions?
Why is the holy spirit nameless and indistinguishable from all of the other holy spirits?
If the Holy Spirit has always been the third person in a triune God, then why did the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD disregard the Holy Spirit as a member of the Godhead when they made Jesus 'God' in 325 AD? Why did they wait until the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD to include the Holy Spirit in the formula?
If the Holy Spirit is really a person, wouldn't the water and blood be persons too according to Trinitarian reasoning and 1 John 5:8?
If the holy spirit really is a person, then why is it sandwiched between a list of QUALITIES at 2 Cor. 6:6?
Why is it that nowhere in the Bible is the Holy Spirit ever said to be an equal member of a trinity?
Why is it that nowhere is it mentioned in the Bible the words, "God, the Holy Spirit," or "The Holy Spirit is God"?
Why is it that there is never mentioned a vision, dream or clear description in scripture wherein God and the Holy Spirit are shown as the same person?