In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word most frequently used for "spirit" is ru'ach, meaning "breath; wind; spirit." Having a similar meaning in the Greek Scriptures, the word is pneu'ma.
Some claim that the holy spirit is a person or even God Himself. Yet nowhere in the Bible is the Holy Spirit called "God, the Holy Spirit." Instead, the way that the Bible uses the term "holy spirit" indicates that it is God's active force that He uses to accomplish a variety of His purposes. Even many trinitarian scholars will admit this. For example, The Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 269, 1976, admits: "In the OT the Holy Spirit means a divine power." (For many more quotes, see "Quotes: Holy Spirit is a Force from God, Trinitarians Admit".)
Genesis 1:2 says that "God's active force ["spirit" (Hebrew, ru'ach)] was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." This shows that God's spirit was his active force working to form the earth.
The Bible says that God's spirit can also supply "power beyond what is normal" to those who serve him. (2 Corinthians 4:7)
It is also recorded that God's spirit empowered the disciples of Jesus to do miraculous things: "Suddenly there occurred from heaven a noise just like that of a rushing stiff breeze, . . . and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance." (Acts 2:1-4)
Some have isolated a few so-called 'proof-texts' from the Bible which they claim show the Holy Spirit as being a person or God Himself. However, close examination show that these 'proof-texts' do not hold up under scrutiny.
For much more, see
The Holy Spirit—God's Active Force
Is the Holy Spirit a Person?
Examining Holy Spirit 'Proof-Texts'
Holy Spirit
Is the Holy Spirit really God?
I would be very interested in some interaction with specific citations of what Trinitarian apologists have put forth in defense of their beliefs. They have interacted with specific WT citations, and I don't see the WT doing the same with so-called "apostate literature," so I would be very interested in seeing your take on these various objections. For instance, interact with what James White has written in his book on the Holy Spirit.
ReplyDeleteJWs do not interact with ex-JWs ('apostates'). However, they will discuss scripture with sincere truth-seekers. I believe James White was never a JW but was SDA. In that case we could interact in a proper discussion of the trinity. If you find a convincing point concerning the trinity in an apostate writing and used that point (in your own words), that could be acceptable also.
ReplyDeleteI would assume that you are prepared to interact with what has already been posted on this blog.
If you wish to discuss the trinity with us, the following address will take you to our discussion group. It should be stressed, however, that discussions of the trinity are to be done one point at a time. In other words, there is to be equal opportunity to discuss the point until there is no more to be said about it before going on to the next point. First you present a point. (2) We discuss it exhaustively. And (3) then we present a point and we discuss it exhaustively, etc.
The Watchtower organization itself is not a point for discussion there.
http://jwsandscripture.yuku.com/directory/default/t/yuku-community.html?new_community=true
Matt13weedhacker
ReplyDeleteCheck out this trinitarian FROIDIAN SLIP!
Epiphanius of Salamis: "...All the sects are truly "gates of hell," but "They will not prevail against the rock", that is, the truth. For even though some of them choose to say, "We too profess the creed that was issued at Nicaea; SHOW ME FROM IT THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS COUNTED AS DIVINE,"..." - Panarion / Adversus Haereses(Excerpts on the Council of Nicaea): §74 - Against Pneumatomachi (Excerpt)taken from Vol. 2, pp.490; Book III, Heresy 74, chapter 14.
14, 4 [Tertullian.org]
OOP'S! How embarassing! I guess they should have erased that one!
Matt13weedhacker
ReplyDeleteThe council of Nicea did not establish a trinity! Easy to say, but where's the proof?
Bishop Epiphanius of Salamis: "...All the sects are truly "gates of hell," but "They will not prevail against the rock", that is, the truth. For even though some of them choose to say, "We too profess the creed that was issued at Nicaea; SHOW ME FROM IT THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS COUNTED AS DIVINE,"..." - Panarion / Adversus Haereses; Book III, Heresy 74, chapter 14:4.[Source tertullian.org]
The Arians were absolutely right because the Council said "...and in holy spirit"! Thats all it had to say about the holy spirit!
There's no trickery or deception in there question to Epiphanius, just a legitimate question and point.
Matt13weedhacker
ReplyDeleteIf this isn't an addmission of guilt I don't know what is?
Check out the tittle of this book written by trinitarians for trinitarians:
“God In Three Persons: The Word ‘Trinity’ IS NOT FOUND IN THE BIBLE. Where Did It Come From
and Why Do We Believe It?” - By E. Calvin Beisner(Wheaton, Illinois: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc. 1984)
HELLO? IS ANYBODY HOME?
Matt13weedhacker
ReplyDelete1. Apostles Creed: Καὶ εἰς το ἅγιον πνεῦμα
1. Apostles Creed: "And into the holy spirit"
2. Nicene Creed: Καὶ εἰς το ἅγιον πνεῦμα
2. Nicene Creed: "And into the holy spirit"
Trinity? = No third PERSON!