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Thursday, October 22, 2009

1 John 5:8

We might also look at the "three-in-one" aspects of 1 John 5:8. It would be best to use most modern Bible translations here since the King James Version has been proven to have spurious material added at 1 John 5:7 (even trinitarian scholars freely admit this).

If Matt. 28:19 adds up to three things being equally one God, then 1 John 5:8, which includes the Spirit, is a much more certain proof of a three-in-one God! There's only one slight problem: the two other "persons" who are equally one with the Spirit have unexpected "names"! - "And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth." - 1 John 5:7 ASV. The Spirit is God, trinitarians say, and, being a person He can bear witness here. But let's read on:

"For there are three who bear witness [this is the only place in the entire Bible we find a 'trinitarian' formula that even mentions the word 'three'!], The Spirit [which is God according to trinitarians], and the water, and the blood: and the three [are] in one." - ASV.

This is by far the clearest "trinitarian" statement in the entire Bible!! It is the only one that even mentions "three" (although we could work in other numbers like "seven" at Rev. 4:5 or "four" at Rev. 4:6 which has 4 living creatures "in the midst of" God's throne, we can't find any use of three). And to top it all off it says "the three are in one." (The ASV renders "agree in one," but the word "agree" is not really found in the Bible manuscripts here. It literally says "the three are in one." - Compare the MLB: "the three are one.")

And who are these three equal "persons" (who bear witness) who are equally the holy spirit (since the three are all "in one"), who, according to trinitarians, is God? Why these three "persons" who are equally God are the Spirit, the water, and the blood! (Notice how verse 9 also shows that these three are "really" God: the witness of these three is really the witness of God!)

Of course an honest, clear statement of a trinity would be:

"For there are three persons who compose the only true God: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And these three persons are the One God."

(You see, it isn't a difficult statement for anyone to write, let alone an inspired Bible writer. Even "God is three (treis, masculine)" would be honest, clear evidence, but you will never see even that in the inspired scriptures. In fact, "three" is NEVER used in any description concerning God. And the number "three," in strong contrast to such numbers as "one," "seven," "twelve," and "forty" has little or no importance in the religious content of the Bible! - pp. 565, 566, Vol. 3, A Dictionary of the Bible, Hastings, ed., Hendrickson Publ. - - see the IMAGE study, f.n. #5) But 1 John 5:8 is, by far, the closest the Bible ever comes to such a statement!

Therefore, this clearest of trinitarian "proofs" (1 John 5:8) shows "conclusively" that if the Holy Spirit is God, His two equal partners are not Jesus and Jehovah, but the "persons" of "the Holy Water" and "the Holy Blood"! (Compare how the earliest church creeds "prove" that "the resurrection" and "the church" must be equally God with the Spirit according to the above trinitarian-type "evidence": see the CREEDS study, pp. 1-4.)

Certainly such "evidence" is absolutely ridiculous! However, it is an excellent example of how the very best trinitarian "proofs" are tragically worthless (Jer. 16:19 - KJV, ASV, RSV, NASB, JPS.)

Also see:

Trinitarian reasoning - water and blood persons too? (SFBT)

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